Are we not nice?

Joy WaltersJoy Walters Member Posts: 9,276
edited 7 May, 2008 in Other Meows & Purrs
Izzie and I \"know\" just about everyone here and we do respect all your opinions, so since HQ would probably move this post to this forum anyway, we decided to post this comment here. Yesterday, someone posted on the Answers site and said they had 11 kittens/cats they needed to find homes for. I think most of us read it and a few responded. When I responded, I was pretty harsh and I thought twice before hitting the \"submit\" button, but then I thought, \"No, this person is irresponsible and needs to hear that.\" I was heartened to read that just about everyone after me told them the same thing. In my years as a animal rescue volunteer, I saw so much animal abuse and heard about even more. I wouldn\'t wish what\'s in my mind/memories on even my worst enemy. My question/comment to you is this; do you think we are within our rights to preach to people who don\'t see the need to spay/neuter and continue to add to the extreme overpopulation of cats in this country? I did so when I volunteered, but I usually had my organization\'s t-shirt on and that (kind of) gave me the right to a space on the soapbox. Do you think our comments make a difference? I purposely stay away from the Kitten Corner forum because there are so many people there who indiscriminately breed their cats. Do you think they\'re aware of what happens to these babies when they\'re no longer littl cuties? A woman I dealt with once went around adopting kittens (and lying on all her applications) and when the kittens grew up, she threw them out. The impossible-to-answer question; How do you convince these people who are so excited about their cats pregnancies and breed these poor cats over and over and over again, that they\'re wrong for doing what they\'re doing? I\'m at a total loss. Thanks, guys!

Comments

  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 6 May, 2008
    Izzie, you and your Meowmy are my GODS. You are so knowledgeable about so many things, and your advice is always so informative, kind, and yet firm, that I always feel I should try to live up to it. Regarding the 11 kittens post, I think everyone who read it was pretty disgusted. I myself wrote a terse but tart reply--I just couldn\'t get over the part that said, \"DO NOT WANT THEM KILLED. Prefer pet shop or private home and would lean toward a private home.\" I read this two ways--one, that the author would PREFER that the kittens not be killed, but, hey, stuff happens; and two, that the author thought that it was anybody\'s responsibility but her (?) own to find homes for her kittens and cats. Not to mention that she seemed to have no intention of preventing similar disasters in the future. \"DO NOT WANT THEM KILLED.\" Geez, does that mean she actually had to debate the matter in her head??? And although I\'m not sure whether the poster got the point of what you wrote about the possible fates of her kittens, I\'m sure it was an eye-opener for some of us innocents who thought that the \"worst\" that could happen would be euthanasia. No, there are sick, sick people out there, and sick people and kittens are not a good mix. In answer to your questions: (1) Yes, I think we have the right to express our opinions regarding the spay/neuter issue. Some people simply just have no idea. There is no rule on Catster that says you can\'t have opinions, just that discussions should not degenerate into cat fights and name-calling. (2) As to whether your comments make a difference--since you are so firm and yet always so kind when you answer, if anyone can make a difference, you can. But let\'s be realistic; all the advice in the world is likely to go over the heads of people like Ms. 11 Cats. Still, that shouldn\'t make you come down from your soapbox. I\'m sure that your advice often does, and will continue to, make a difference with otherwise sensible people who just haven\'t thought the thing through clearly. So, keep firing away! Regarding \"Are we not nice?\"--YOU always are, but Harvey and Co. sometimes have trouble keeping our claws sheathed. We\'re new here and a bit giddy with the joy of self-expression (and heck, we range from four years old down to 6 months!), so we\'re still learning the ropes. But looking back on our previous posts, we regret the sometimes flippant and sarcastic tone of some of them. After all, we don\'t know who these posts are coming from; they could be coming from someone who is emotionally vulnerable or has some kind of handicap that keeps them from treating their cats with what we would consider common sense. Harvey and Co. are making the attempt to play nicer with the other Cats from now on. Anyway, Izzy, you and your Meowmy have a real CONSCIENCE. You are GOOD. Not all people will agree with you, not all people will heed your advice, but I think everyone can understand that you write what you do because you CARE. You are one of a cluster of Cats who ARE Catster. Long live Izzy (and his Meowmy)! ;c;
  • Faye DufourFaye Dufour Destrehan, LA/New Orleans areaMember Posts: 4,648
    edited 6 May, 2008
    Izzie and Harvey: We missed the "11 Kittens" post. Did ONE cat have eleven kittens or more than one....well really no matter. WHAT IS THAT OWNER THINKING OF???? And she wants them to go to Private Homes....well, my meowmy would like to win the Power Ball Lottery one day - but that probably "ain't gonna happen" either. What about SPAYING the female(s) who had the kittens, then the owner would not have any worries about what would happen to the kittens. I say go for it Izzie and Harvey's meowmies. Since you have been a volunteer Izzie's mom, I am sure you can tell lots of horror stories about what happens when there are too many kitties. What REALLY makes my meowmy want to scream is when people say "well I think my cat/dog should have at least ONE litter. Well, I am here to tell you, I was spayed at six months old, and have never missed not having a litter of kittens. My brofurs Louie, Benny and Pete are my "babies" and that is fine with me. And I take care of my meowmy when she is not feeling well. In a perfect world, every cat (and dog) would be as loved and well cared for as are the cats and dogs on CATSTER and DOGSTER. But, as we all know, this is not the case. Hurray for those who speak up for those who have no voice. (to borrow part of the SPCA's slogan). Emma Barrett, Louis Armstong, Benny Grunch & Pete Fountain P.S. Meowmy thinks that these people might change their minds if they had to witness kittens, cats, puppies and dogs being "put to sleep".
  • Jo MillerJo Miller Member Posts: 1,915
    edited 6 May, 2008
    I agree with what you all are saying, but did you ever stop to think that maybe the cats aren\'t \"fixed\" because the owner can\'t afford it? I have barn cats-I would LOVE to get them fixed, but I can\'t afford it. I also have 2 indoor cats (who ARE fixed) so I know how much it costs. I am NOT an irresponsible owner-I simply don\'t have that much extra money. I feed my cats and try to take care of them. But I can\'t afford to get them fixed-some days it is hard to buy FOOD for them. And it would help me if I didn\'t go out to my barn and find strange cats there-they wandered off, or were dropped off. So, please realize, not everyone is irresponsible-some just don\'t have the extra money. And NO, where I live, I can\'t find low-cost spay/nueter.
  • Tanya MundyTanya Mundy boulderMember Posts: 763
    edited 6 May, 2008
    do you think we are within our rights to preach to people who don't see the need to spay/neuter and continue to add to the extreme overpopulation of cats in this country? --- With in your rights... yes. But is it teh best approach, probably not. People are generally set in their ways, and rarely are they willing to do "what others say". Rather, when you let them come to thier own conclusions, they feel empowered and "change" their out look. it's an art of public speakign the teh best of politicians and sales people have. "i'm not telling you to buy this car, i'm finding a way that you will tell me you are buying this car". Usually, when i take the time to think about my posts, I like to make sure I only give "what *I* would do in that situation" along with my reasons. Telling peopel they are not responsible is both judgmental and controlling, and it's bound to bring up the walls of defense, then you will never "get your way". Also, some people for a whole host of reasons really don't agree that the best thing to do is spay/neuter. and they have a right to that opinion, and to not be told they are wrong. There is a fine line between "challenging a person to defend a position you don't like" and just calling them "stupid" for having that opinion. I really get angry at people (here or in life) who think they know everything and have no problems telling others what they should do. Rather, I respect those who (though they may think or feel they are right) find a way to simply give options and opinions and "what worked for me is" and "have you considered that" and "don't forget how high the animal population is, you might want to consider..." does that make sense?
  • Tanya MundyTanya Mundy boulderMember Posts: 763
    edited 6 May, 2008
    Simon - you are an example of why I think it's good to be careful of what we say, or rather - how we say it. But one thing you might consider, by the way; if you contact your local shelter, they often have or know of low and mid cost sites especially for wild and semi wild cats. It's with a call, anyhow. good luck.
  • Joy WaltersJoy Walters Member Posts: 9,276
    edited 6 May, 2008
    Thank you to everyone who posted in answer to my question and musings about people who do not spay/neuter for whatever reason. I have this advice for someone who doesn\'t have the financial wherewithall to spay/neuter. During non-kitten season, humane rescue organizations and shelters are on \"stand-down\" more or less. They have more time to help people who are overwhelmed by assisting to TNR. When I volunteered, I made a few trips to private homes, farms, etc. to help trap cats, take them to be fixed and then brought them back to the owner. These were domestic as well as feral cats. The rescue also provided financial aid to the people. But this, like the physical assistance, is better done during non-kitten season as finances are not quite as strained for the rescues/shelters. To my friend Dulci: I would never presume to call a person \"stupid\" because they did not spay or neuter their animal. But I do feel it is irresponsible pet ownership and I\'ve indicated that to many people over my years with animal rescue. Usually, a few horror stories from my experiences convinces them that bringing more kittens into this already overcrowded world is not wise. My organization was unique in that we never adopted out an animal that was not fixed. Our director negotiated special services with the low-cost spay and neuter clinic in our city. We learned that people simply cannot be trusted even if they sign an agreement to have the animal spayed or neutered. I daresay that people who do not believe in spaying or neutering their cats have never had to scrape the remains of a dismembered kitten off the concrete floor of a dog-fighting ring after the dogs were finished being trained for \"blood lust\". I\'m sorry, Dulci, but I have no patience for people who don\'t spay or neuter. If they are insulted because I have the audacity to say they\'re \"irresponsible\", then I\'ll just have to live with that. I do appreciate everyone\'s input. I realize that diversity is what makes this site so great and why I enjoy spending so much time here. Everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion. Thank you again, Izzie\'s Mom
  • Lissa NicholsonLissa Nicholson SydneyMember Posts: 1,562
    edited 6 May, 2008
    Izzie, we certainly understand where you're coming from. I foster for a rescue, and we are right in the middle of a kitten crisis. We got 25 kittens dropped off in one day, from people who allowed their cats to breed, and couldn't find homes for the babies. As a result, adult cats who had been there a few months had to be euthanised, to make room. The two vets I work with are also full of kittens. All the vet nurses have kittens at home that they are raising. It breaks my heart, and it makes me mad to think how easily this could be averted, if only more people chose to be responsible.
  • Beastie_and_the_BoysBeastie_and_the_Boys Marquette, MI / ChicagoMember Posts: 17,806 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 May, 2008
    Please note that the Catster Community Guidelines state: "While forums are great for sharing information, they are lousy for gaining consensus or debating emotional issues. Assume good will. Consider that text on a page is easy to misinterpret. Consider how easily your words may be misinterpreted as well." "The Spirit of Catster: This site is for the love of cats. It is about caring and support. It is about fun, friendly and informational sharing of our passion for our furry friends. There is no shortage of places on the internet to fight, scratch and snarl and we thought it was high time to have a place that was all about the kindness and fun of sharing and communication. If you're used to other online communities, you can pull your claws in and stop growling, you'll find it's a fun, friendly place. Conversely, take the time to be nice here! It's well worth the effort." Please remember that, even if you truly believe your position is right, that being unkind or going on a rant without knowing the situation is not acceptable. Thanks, everykitty! |^|
  • Beastie_and_the_BoysBeastie_and_the_Boys Marquette, MI / ChicagoMember Posts: 17,806 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 May, 2008
    Hi,

    We have closed this thread. Threads can be closed temporarily or permanently for a variety of reasons. Some of the most common reasons are: the thread has gone off topic; the thread is not in the 'spirit' of Catster; the thread is no longer fun, friendly or informational; the thread has been discussed at length in other threads; or we cannot provide adequate moderation at this time.

    Please let HQ know if you have any questions.

    HQ

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