Why Do People Go To Breeders?

I guess I just don't get it. There are millions of homeless kittens in shelters, rescues, and on the street. I found Lucy as a stray kitten. Why would anybody want to buy a genetically modified cat when they could get a wonderful cat and save a life. I'm not necessarily bashing breeders, but I just don't get it. I feel especially bad for cats like Persians and Exotics who faces are flat, or Munchkins, who can have terrible health problems that can lead to death. I just don't get why people are breeding these cats.
«134

Comments

  • Summer RobinsonSummer Robinson BaltimoreMember Posts: 181
    edited 23 November, 2010
    Some people just want a certian breed of cat. It may seem silly to some, but to others it is important.
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 24 November, 2010
    Sigh. I'm a Maine Coon breeder. We have posts like this every so often. I certainly don't disagree that most people are perfectly happy with a generic kitty, which usually means a rescue of some sort. It's said that 95% of all cats in the U.S. are "plain old cats"--not purebreds. But the issue is a lot more complicated than the standard "Why not get a cat from a shelter and save a life?" argument. There are as many opinions about this issue as there are cat owners, I think. For example, I don't really approve of breeds that have been genetically modified to the point where their quality of life may be compromised--Siamese, Persians, and Munchkins being the best-known examples. For most of history, there were only genetic cats, with some variations according to location--Egypt, Persia, Thailand, the Isle of Man (Manx cats), Norway (Norwegian Forest Cats), and America (the Maine Coon), and so on and so on. Later, these indigenous breeds attracted breeders who attempted to breed them to breed standards set by various cat registries, the CFA being the oldest and best-known. Some of these breed standards, such as those for Siamese and Persians, can be extreme and cause physical problems. Some breeds, such as the Maine Coon, have not yet been bred in ways that compromise their health. (Maine Coons are vulnerable to heart problems, but as far as I know, it's not clear whether this is due to breeding practices, or whether it's a problem that has been with Maine Coons from even before there was a purebred version. Breeders are doing their best to eliminate from their breeding programs cats with the genetic propensity for heart problems, and the CFA is a big sponsor of research on heart problems and other feline diseases.) Take a moment to consider dogs. Distinct dog breeds have been around much longer than cat breeds. If you want to talk about breeding practices and breed standards that compromise quality of life, dogs provide a lot more examples than do cats. Some people defend the idea of dog breeds (which, obviously, require dog breeders) by saying that dogs were traditionally bred for certain tasks. Well, that may have been true at one point in history, but how many people living in your standard suburban home or urban apartment are using Fido as a hunting or herding dog? People choose dog breeds because they like the dog's looks, or personality, or size, or whatever. It's the same thing with cat breeds. Most people are perfectly happy with generic cats. Even people with purebred cats often have moggies in their feline household (I have Spike). Although not every purebred cat's personality matches widely believed descriptions, you can probably bet that most Siamese are going to be chatty, most Persians are going to be pretty laid-back, etc. Sure, you can go to a shelter and find an adult cat with the personality you want (kittens are kind of a wild card)--in fact, in some ways, I think that's safer than getting a purebred cat because you're sure it's going to have the personality you want. (Some of my Maine Coons have very un-Maine Coon-like personalities). But then there's the visual aspect. People are often attracted to animals because of their looks, just as they are attracted to other people's looks. Looks aren't everything, obviously. But some people like black cats, some people like red tabbies, some people like Siamese, some people like Maine Coons--and I don't see anything wrong with that. Mind you, this doesn't mean you have to get a purebred to be aesthetically satisfied. A generic cat will do just as well. It's just that some people prefer some looks over others, and, to repeat myself, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And then there are those people who enjoy cats via showing them in cat shows. Cat shows are heaven for people who love cats (I've never met anyone in the cat world for whom cats weren't the center of their life). Cat shows can be stressful for cats, but a consciencious exhibitor will only show cats who enjoy being shown--and some cats do. Cat shows and the registries that sponsor them serve as excellent venues for exchanging information on cat behavior, health, etc., and breakthroughs in research on cat health have been made through sponsorships by the CFA and other registries. I'm running out of space here, so I'll make just a few more comments as briefly as I can. (1) There are many ways to enjoy cats. Having a cat as a family member is the most basic and common, but showing cats (and you can show non-breed cats as well as purebreds) is another. Breeding cats is another way of enjoying cats. So-called hobby breeders breed because they love cats. They do not breed on a large scale, and their cats receive the best in health care and maintenance. Inbreeding is usually not practiced (exceptions would be when a new breed is being developed and there aren't enough breeding partners to go around). Cats are tested for genetic mutations before being bred. Breeders enjoy breeding (which is back-breaking work, by the way) because they love cats, are trying to improve the breed in question, want to show their cats in cat shows (an important source for mentoring and getting advice), and last but not least, want to make new owners happy. I cannot emphasize strongly enough that responsible breeding brings in very little money. (2) There are breeders and then there are breeders. There are consciencious hobby breeders, slightly shady hobby breeders, backyard breeders, kitten mills, and all sorts of variations in between. And don't forget that the consumer plays a role in all of this. A consumer who does not do research on the breed of cat they want, on how to find a good breeder (not simply for their breed of choice, but certain general rules), but instead buys an iffy animal from a pet shop or a sleazy breeder is as much a part of the problem as the breeders themselves. (3) If you want a breed cat, there are breed-specific rescue services that can provide you with the breed you want, and you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you have given a homeless cat a place to call its own AND have the breed you prefer. (4) Breeders cannot be singled out as being responsible for the cat overpopulation problem. As I wrote above, less than 5% of cats in the U.S. are any specific breed. Although shelters will often label a cat as being a certain breed or a mix, not infrequently these labels are rather random if not inaccurate (the chances of finding a Turkish Van in a shelter are virtually zilch). But a breed label can help a cat find a home, so what's wrong with that? In fact, while there ARE purebred cats in shelters, their numbers are very, very few. As for mixes, Siamese and Persians have contributed a lot to the American moggy genetic pool, but certain newer breeds are rare and/or sold with spay/neuter agreements that make random breeding unlikely. To repeat: breeders are not responsible for the cat overpopulation problem (except for kitten mill owners who may just dump their kittens somewhere randomly when they can't take care of them any longer). Nor are people who want breed cats responsible for the overbreeding problem. Most people are satisfied with a generic cat, and the percentage of people who want purebred cats and have the money to afford one is, as I have mentioned before, statistically low. Even though purebred cats do end up in shelters, common sense says that someone who is willing to pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a cat is probably less likely to abandon Kitty than someone with a loosely-owned semi-feral cat. I don't have figures to prove this, and of course there are always exceptions, but someone who spends $5000 for a cat probably really wanted that cat, and probably is in an income bracket where financial concerns will be unlikely to cause the owner to have to relinquish the cat. (5) Breeders are not generally responsible for cat health problems. Yes, inbreeding and other questionable breeding practices exist, but are not practiced by consciencious breeders. If you are concerned about inbreeding, remember that many feral rescues or cat hoarding situation rescues have inbreeding in their backgrounds. A consciencious breeder limits breeding to cats who are not related and test negative for health and genetic issues. Cats with birth defects or illnesses are not sold, but are kept in the cattery. Cats who live in group situations, such as multi-cat households, catteries, and shelters, are more likely to pass on infectious diseases to each other. Cattery cats may have parasites and are almost guaranteed to have been exposed to Coronavirus--but then, so have most other cats. But, by definition cattery cats are indoor kitties, and it goes without saying that they are not apt to have feline AIDs or feline leukemia. As for whether purebreds have shorter lifespans than moggies--that's debatable. Purebred cats tend to live indoors, which is the single most important fact in prolonging a cat's life. It's probably true that a good percentage of people who are willing to fork out a lot of money for a purebred cat are also going to be willing and able to give it good vet care. A purebred cat may be less likely to be the result of inbreeding than a randomly-bred rescue. Purebred cat owners and breeders should be aware of health problems associated with their breed, which means more check-ups. In any event, I don't think you can make a blanket claim that purebreds are more prone to health issues than moggies are. It depends on the individual cat and the owner. (6) People who are truly determined to get a breed cat are going to do so, whether it means going to a breed-specific rescue shelter, buying from a pet shop, buying from a sleazy breeder, or buying from a responsible breeder. You can't change that. I find it unreasonable when the claim is made that by buying a purebred cat, you are causing a shelter cat to die. First, because a person who really wants a purebred cat will get one. Second, because purebred cats are not involved in any significant way to the cat overpopulation problem. Whether someone buys a purebred cat or not, obscene numbers of moggies will be put down by shelters every day. Pointing one's fingers at breeders as responsible for this obscures the true causes--people who do not spay/neuter their cats, people who do not find good homes for kittens resulting from an "Oops!" litter, mismanagement of feral colonies (and what this entails is another complex subject that I won't go into here), and even the existence of kindly souls with "loosely owned" cats--cats they feed and occasionally give shelter to, but do not necessarily desex or provide with vet care. (7) I've been on Catster for several years, and one of the most frequently asked questions is "What breed is my cat?" The answer is almost always generic moggy--domestic short hair, domestic medium hair, domestic long hair. Sometimes you see cats with identifiable breed features--usually Siamese, Persian, or Maine Coon. I find it paradoxical that while the majority of people on Catster have generic cats, and that many do not seem to really approve of purebred cats or their breeders, that everyone is so fascinated by cat breeds, and that so many people seem to want their cat to be some "breed." Maybe this is the influence of dogs--most dogs have some kind of identifiable breed(s) in them, even if they're mutts. However, to have breeds (except naturally occurring ones, like Maine Coons--there are naturally occurring Maine Coons and purebred Maine Coons, which is confusing), you need breeders. Anyone (not necessarily the OP) who enjoys the idea of cat breeds but decries ownership of purebred cats or of breeders is being both illogical and hypocritical. (8) If it were not for breeders, certain indigenous, region-specific breeds of cats would have died out. Everyone's favorite, the Maine Coon, was in danger of dying out in the postwar years, when there was a big boom in Siamese and Persians. The Turkish Angora, which is an extremely rare cat, was saved from extinction by rigorous measures taken by the Ankara Zoo--measures so rigorous that very few true Turkish Angoras have been allowed to be exported. If you're told by a shelter that your cat is a Turkish Angora, the chances of that being true, or even partly true, are almost guaranteed to be zero. Ecologically-minded people deplore the decline in species diversity. Were it not for breeders, certain indigenous breeds would no longer exist. The majority of new breeds are based on foundation cats with an interesting mutation (folded or curled ears, wavy fur, etc.), or hybrids resulting from mixing domestic and wild cats. Whether the creation of new breeds is actually an instance of enhancing biodiversity is a question I have no answer for, but it is certainly true that these new breeds give many people pleasure, and, in general, I see no harm in their being allowed to exist. (Exceptions would be if the mutation causes health problems, or whether hybridization with wild cats poses dangers to people, other animals, or the environment.) (9) I have nothing but the greatest respect for people who take on special needs kitties--blind cats, cats with brain damage, cats with missing legs, cats with health problems. These people adopt less than perfect cats because they love them and want to help them. However, I tend to get a bit defensive when people oversimplify the matter of adoption to make it simply a way to save a cat's life. Surely, if adopting a cat means that you have saved it from dying in a shelter, or if adopting a handicapped cat means that you have given a loving home to a cat who would otherwise be unlikely to find one, that's a wonderful thing. But this does not mean that people who buy purebreds should be made to feel guilty. People who prefer to adopt a cat without major health issues should not be made to feel guilty, either. Owning a cat should not be confused with saving cats. If you can do both, fine and good. If you can't, you shouldn't be criticized. I often wonder why people think nothing of arguing that a cat should be rescued from a shelter, rather than be bought from a breeder, while they think nothing of having their own babies, rather than saving lives of children facing certain death in developing countries, or adopting a special needs child. Owning a cat should be neither a political or a moral statement. (And besides, you don't own a cat anyway--the cat owns you.) As you can see, the issue is very complicated. I know a lot more about pedigreed cats and breeding than I once did, but I'm still far from omniscient. However, before someone begins criticizing the existence of purebred cats and breeders, or links the existence of purebred cats with the feline overpopulation problem, I suggest that they do some basic research, which will reveal some of the points I have made here. I have repeatedly tried to get solid
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 23 November, 2010
    ...Oops, got cut off. Anyway, there seems to be a dearth of data regarding cat overpopulation, how it started, whether it is a bigger problem now than it was in the past, etc. I've tried to research this, but have come up with few figures. I don't remember what else I wanted to say, except to each his or her own. Every cat deserves a loving home. As for the thread title, "Why Do People Go to Breeders?"--if you get a good breeder, the relationship will last for the lifetime of the cat. A good breeder will be there to answer various questions about your cat. A good breeder will take your cat back if you find yourself unable to keep it any longer for some reason. A good breeder may even become your friend, and you may find yourself going back to the same breeder again for another cat or cats. Heh heh, I didn't get Lowell from a breeder. I bred him myself (rather, two of my cats did), and it's a very satisfying experience. He now has a loving forever home--with me!
  • Elizabeth KElizabeth K ChicagoMember Posts: 11,036
    edited 23 November, 2010
    My brother wanted to get a Maine Coon because he wanted a kitten who would grow into a large, healthy Maine Coon type (solid black) cat. He did not want to get a random bred cat from a shelter because he wanted a cat where he knew the temperaments and health of the parents, and knew that the kittens had gotten adequate prenatal nutrition and health care as they were developing and as they were raised, as well as socialization. I helped him in his search to find a good breeder. I also did some showing with Roxy but that was something I got interested in after she came home, so it wasn't part of the planning. Roxy is a wonderful cat and she's gotten me more interested in the breed so I will probably get my own Maine Coon kitten in the future at some people, even though all my other cats were rescues, mostly as feral kittens.
  • Elizabeth KElizabeth K ChicagoMember Posts: 11,036
    edited 23 November, 2010
    Also wanted to add, Maine Coons are not "genetically modified". They are a natural breed native to New England.
  • Lisa DausmanLisa Dausman Member Posts: 5,216
    edited 23 November, 2010
    Show people would go to breeders, because they show, and they want a quality show cat, thats what their hobby is. Non show people, may have gone to a cat show, to enjoy the cats, and see a certain breed, or a certain kitten that catches their eye. Or they may have some across a cat, or picture of a cat, that was a certain breed, that they really liked. Depending on the situation, they may get a show quality cat, or they might, for price reasons, just get a pet quality cat, that is also a purebred, and eligable to be registered, so they have the breed cat they want. There are show people, who have expensive championship cats that are breeders. And there are, what the common term is, backyard breeders. Show breeders have alot of money invested in their cats as well as their reputation. They go above and beyond, to make sure the kittens are well cared for, and they get responsible homes, weather it be to a show person or a non show person. Backyard breeders, for the most part, are in it for the money, no not all, but a good majorty of them are. They have registered purebred cats, that are not show quality, so not near the money invested in them, as a show person would, and they sell the kittens for ballpark $300-$400, so altho they are not getting rich on it, mol, it is extra income. Backyard breeders are for the non show people, who have not a clue, about anything, but want the prestige, per say, of saying, I have a registered purebred Persian, its a status thing. And the people they are trying to impress, have not a clue either, so it sounds like they have a high class cat, per say. Or they are for the person that just really likes a certain breed, and cannot afford the higher prices of a show kitten, or may not even be aware, of show breeders. Not at all, running down backyard breeders, have come across some great ones, very caring, they are just more for the non show people. As far as the breeds, many of the CFA breeds, came from a barn cat, per say, for lack of a better term, that may be, different, as in the Scottish Fold, barn kitten was born with ears like that, and somebody said, hey, I have a good idea, lets breed for that. That, I do not agree with. As Harvey said, the Siamese and the Persians of today, look nothing, at all, like the breed of years ago. Why they bred the Persians to have the smushed in faces, and the Siamese to have those very slim bodies, and which, I know what else they do, to achieve it, which ya don't want to know, I have not a clue, why they decided to do this. As far as the Maine Coons, they are prone to HCM, as are Ragdolls. Its a genetic defect. They don't know what causes it, they have been trying to identify the gene. The Ragdoll people and the Winn Foundation have been instrumental, in doing the research, as has Dr Susan Little, and there is one other, I forget his name now. After years of reasearch, they identified, one, just one, out of like a zillion, so the research is on going. But, the breeders themselves, have caused a good deal of this, by not policeing themselfs. They did not test their cats for HCM. Positive cats should be removed from the breeding program and spayed/neutered. At this point in time, a negative cat, only means, at that point in time, the cat is negative, does not mean, the cat cannot develope it later on. Positive cats, should be pulled from the breeding program. Females or males can get it, altho, males are more prevelant to getting it. You can have one kitten in a litter that has it, and the others don't. By not testing, and continueing to breed, they are only making the situation worse. I say this each and every time, this subject comes up, any Maine Coon breeder or Ragdoll breeder, who does not test, is insane, they are playing with fire. They absolutly, do not, want to come across a kitten buyer like me. Bump has it. He was diagnosed at 10 months, was told, he would not live past 1 yr. Somebody's gonna pay, and pay dearly, for that. Called his breeder, she was beyond helpful, offered me his purchase price back, offered another kitten, offered to help with his vet bills. She didn't even know, she said, alot don't. When I got done, they all knew. All I asked for, was I wanted to know, where this came from. Took me over a year, to find it, going back and back, in his lines on both sides, forced kitties to be tested, even got death threats, on me, on Bump, CFA even got involved. Threatening me is one thing, I didn't back down, thretening Bump, was somebody's huge mistake. They all kept asking me why, why are you doing this, he is neutered. Because I said, I don't want any more Bump's born, no one should have to go thru, what I went thru. I don't wish this heartache on anyone. When I got done, a whole top championship line got shut down. They should of tested, this all could have been avoided. Some kitten buyers have lawsuits going. Like I said, breeders who don't test, are insane, they do not, want to come across, a kitten buyer like me.
  • janice lancasterjanice lancaster temple gaMember Posts: 2,505
    edited 24 November, 2010
    Meowma has always had 'found', rescue or shelter cats; I am purebred but was in a rescue situation. But Meowma is considering getting a purebred at some point. One thing that I'm suprised our show freinds here did not mention is that if you get a kitten from a show breeder, it will most likely be easy to handle, have a pleasing personality, and be used to all kinds of activity due to the breeder's care and handling that goes on in a show home. The buyer is less likely to end up with a kitty that hides all the time or gets over aggressive because of this as well. Also, Meowma likes seeing all the different kitties at the shows, and the fact that very few of the cat breeds look like any you ever see running the streets (some would argue--go to a cat show if you want to see)Meowma also would like to compete at the cat shows at some point, and maybe even eventually breed some kittens. It wouldn't mean that we could never save a homeless kitty again!
  • Lisa DausmanLisa Dausman Member Posts: 5,216
    edited 24 November, 2010
    Boo Boo is right, was going to get into that, but when this subject comes up, Harvey's and Bump's posts get kinda long, mol, and when Maine Coon's come up, I get on my soapbox about testing, mol, plus, my supper was ready, mol. :)) Most show breeders ads, say raised underfoot, and they mean that, literly. They have people coming and going, their kids, their kids friends, some have 2 litters going, and my breeder has dogs and horses. These kittens are extensivly handled by many people and are very very well socialized. Show breeders have kitties that are worth hundreds, if not thousands of dollors, they have a reputation to maintain. They want to make sure the person gets the right kitten and is happy with that kitten, and they have health guarantees. If you don't like the kitten, or there is a health issue, you bring the kitten back, they will give you another kitten, or your money back, which ever you want. They want kitten buyers happy, and they continue to help you after you bought the kitten. Was at Petsmart one time, had to go look at the kitties, mol, could just take them all home, mol. One was very obvioulsly a Ragdoll, had the long fur, the points, the blue eyes, that, was a purebred Ragdoll, who knows where he came from or how he ended up there. They had him labeled as a Siamese. Not even close, in the coloring or the temperment, two totally opposits of the spectrum. One lady was looking at the Ragdoll, told her it was a Ragdoll, not a Siamese, rescue lady was beyond mad at me. She said nobody knows what a Ragdoll is, but most un knowledgeable people know what a Siamese is, people see blue eyes, oh, must be a Siamese, and they sell, per say, faster. I told her they are mis-representing the cat, and thus, more prone to the cat being brought back. I see that alot, and read posts on here about that alot, my kitty is a rescue kitty, and they told me he is so and so breed, which, the kitty is very obviously, to a knowledgeable show person, is not. Not at all knocking rescue organizations, they perform a valuable service in the whole big picture. I just think they should not mis-represent the cat. And, when one of my kitties had to be put down, and I had room in my heart for another kitty, I called rescue organizations first, I was their best friend, until I mentioned I show, then I was the enemy, they said flat out, we will not adopt to you, one even hung up on me. I said to the heck with this, and decided to get another show kitten, which was Bump. Should thank those people, if it were not for them, would never have found Bump, and thus, found the bestest kitty in the whole world. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 24 November, 2010
    Not all of my kittens have grown up to be easy to handle, but that could be because I was going through some tough times when my last litter was growing up, and probably didn\'t socialize them enough. It is true, however, that none of my cats (even my moggy Spike) have many of the behavioral problems that I read about on Catster. Yeah, we have some toilet issues, but they\'re related to territorial stuff and my not keeping up with the litter boxes. But clipping nails, grooming, baths, giving medicine, going to the vet, going on trains and riding in cars, the cat carrier--everything is cool. It\'s partly genetics and partly the way the cats are raised. I\'ve noticed that Chibi\'s kittens tend to be more outgoing than Leila\'s; Umesaburo is a mellow dude, and Chibi is eternally cheerful. Leila is an affectionate and very ladylike and well-behaved kitty, but somewhat aloof, and her kittens include some rather unfriendly ones. As for rescue agencies not being willing to have one of their cats be shown--I can sort of see their point, in the sense that it can be stressful for many cats, and shows do expose cats to germs. But the consciencious exhibitor does not show cats who don\'t like being shown, and going to a cat show is certainly less of a health threat than letting your cat outside. I suspect that not a few rescue people secretly resent the whole world of breeding and cat showing--all because of the very short-sided generalization that purebred cats are somehow contributing to the cat overpopulation problem. And, I\'m repeating myself here, but when I read of people getting rescue kitties who have ear mites, parasites, fleas, URIs, and who knows what else, I sort of wonder if it\'s considered somehow noble to adopt a sick kitty--the sicker the better. My breeder wasn\'t really up on anything but the most basic health stuff (probably the worst thing I can say about him), and the cats I got from him had parasites. I once saw some kittens (none of which I adopted) who seemed to have eye infections, although the next time I visited, the eye infections had been cured. Cats living in group situations are more likely to get sick than those who don\'t. Still, if I\'m going to adopt an animal that may be with me for two decades, I\'d rather start out with a relatively healthy one. And yes, Maine Coons are not genetically modified cats, although there is a difference between naturally occurring MCs and pedigreed MCs. The former breed randomly, and the latter only with other pedigreed MCs. But the foundation stock is the same. Breeding always involves breeding for certain breed standards, which means breeding only those cats who have those traits (in the MC world, tall ears, square muzzle, nose dip, sturdy build, long torso, fluffy tail, and size). In that sense, purebred cats could, I suppose, be described as \"genetically modified.\" But I think this is only a problem when the \"modifications\" have negative impacts on the cat\'s health. Don\'t forget that dogs have been genetically and surgically modified for centuries. Take bulldogs or pugs: they have serious health issues due to the extremes that these modifications have reached. Or think of the practice of cropping ears and docking tails. Compared with dogs, cats have undergone considerably less genetic and surgical modification throughout the ages.
  • Lisa DausmanLisa Dausman Member Posts: 5,216
    edited 24 November, 2010
    If rescue organizations, would just go to a few shows, and see how very well cared for these cats are, they might not be so critical of show people. But Harvey has a good point too, and I can see both sides. The average house cat, and I don't mean any of the Catster kitties, for the most part, is never taken to the vets twice a year, for a wellness exam, never taken in for shots, never train their cats, and most let them go outside. Then they wonder why, the kitty is so sick, wellness could of caught it early, and/or shots could of prevented the cat from getting sick, have behavioral issues because they never bothered to teach/train the cat, and I know letting a cat out, is a personal preference, but, in my opinion, increases the chances of the cat getting hurt, sick or killed. I never knew, most Dalmations are born deaf, its a genetic defect, who knows where it came from, but the breeders don't seem like they are trying to breed it out. Puppies are routinely taken in, at a certain age, before weaning, and if they are deaf, they are destroyed. Made me sick, when I heard that one, they are lucky I ain't a doggy person. One of my show friends picked one out, was told about the deafness thing, she TOLD the breeder, even if the puppy is deaf, she still wants her, and she and her husband have been training the puppy by hand signals, and the puppy is very well trained and behaved. Then we have the German Shepards, with the hip displasia, that too, is a genetic defect, don't see them doing anything about that either, or maybe its just too late, maybe they just all have it. Horse's are no exception either. Take the Quarter Horses, when I was a kid, they were know as the bulldogs. They were short, ballpark 14.2, and wide, very wide, hence the bulldog term, I had one, he was wider than he was tall, mol. Then they starting breeding TB's with QH's, horses got taller, like over 16 hands, and looked more like a TB than a QH. Appaloosa's did the same thing, breed the smaller App with the bigger QH's, and thus got alot, of solid App's. Then the color wars began, that was about along the lines of the range wars, no kidding. You had the big boys out West, who had the big bucks, with all the solid App's. The colored people wanted the App returned to the orig App. Now, pretty much, without going into a detailed long explanation, if ya have a solid baby born, your pretty much sol. Then we have the Impressive saga. Impressive was a top top top QH halter champion. Then comes along HYPP, won't even get into that one, look it up, it ain't pretty, most died. It was a genetic defect, that was traced back to Impressive. Finally horse people wised up, well gee, maybe we should start breeding that out, ya think? Foals must be DNA tested, and any positive cannot be registered. Forced the breeders, and the big boys out West to police themselfs. Wish CFA would do the same, all it takes, is the wrong person, to get pissed off, and the journey begins, and some day, it will happen, look what I got accomplished. HHP people wanted disabled cats to be eligable to be shown. We pushed and pushed and pushed and wouldn't shut up about it, alot worked very hard on this. It was finally passed, and this season, disabled kitties are eligable to be shown. It just takes one, to start the journey. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
  • Elizabeth KElizabeth K ChicagoMember Posts: 11,036
    edited 24 November, 2010
    I just wanted to add, I also show my non-purebred cats in the HHP class, and most of the cat shows I've gone to there are rescue groups who show HHP cats available for adoption and usually the cats end up getting adopted by someone who sees them at the shows! Also no not all or even most Dalmatians are born deaf, it is not that high a percentage. Same thing with German Shepherds-- not all Shepherd have hip dysplasia, and responsible breeders ARE trying to improve the breed, responsible breeders x-ray the hips and elbows of all dogs before they re used for breeding and do NOT breed dogs with hip problems. I have a German Shepherd who was originally from a responsible breeder (I adopted her from the previous owner) and her hips are great; they are OFA good and she has NO joint problems.
  • Lisa DausmanLisa Dausman Member Posts: 5,216
    edited 24 November, 2010
    I meant rescue groups in general. We have rescue groups at shows too, and they put some of the kitties in the HHP classes. Most judges will ask, are any of the kittens/cats here up for adoption, to help the rescue groups and so the spectators are aware of it. Was at one show, think it was the Garden State show in NJ, one of the rescue groups kittens was in the HHP class, real cute little guy, we all got attached to him, and hoped he found a furever home, and he was making most of the Finals, out of like over 25 cats. Was one of the last rings of the day, he made the Final, kept calling his number. We refused to let the judge start the Final until he came up. Some even went to his bench to look for him. Came back and they told us, he had been adopted, and his new parents did not want to wait for the Final, took him home, we were so happy he got a home, we all cried. By rule, they should of called up another cat, the judge didn't, we wanted him awarded his Final placing. At TICA shows, when a kitty gets adopted, they ring the bell, and everybody applaudes, its so cool. I always go look at them, want to take them all home. Thanks for the info on the dogs, like I said, I ain't a doggy person, but thats what the breeder told my friend, will pass that info on to her, will make her feel better. Ever get to any Region 4 or Region 1 shows? I am in Region 1, farthest west I been is Buffalo NY and Butler PA, get alot of OH people at our shows. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
  • Elizabeth KElizabeth K ChicagoMember Posts: 11,036
    edited 24 November, 2010
    I've only been to Midwest shows, but my brother (and Roxy) recently moved to NH so in the future I might end up going to some shows in that area. =; Roxy has "retired" from showing but I'm still showing in HHP, mostly Harley my torbie in TICA, she is a Quad Grand Master.
  •  Member Posts: 2,382
    edited 24 November, 2010
    I know Bengals are hybrid, so I suppose that's what you'd call genetically modified, but my aunt said that she had inbred shelter rescues all her life and she wanted a kitten who she could know the approximate demeanor and know that she wasn't inbred. Plus, generally if you have a breeder who knows what they're doing and has quality queens and toms, the health issues are reduced in their kittens. A big reason for me was knowing that Verlaine isn't inbred. And I totally agree about Persians/Himalayans/Exotics; their faces first of all aren't attractive and second cause major health issues for the cat. I didn't know that Siamese had health issues; I'll have to look into that. And with Munchkins, I've heard two stories. The cat has problems with jumping and their short legs put pressure on their organs, but most declawed cats have trouble jumping anyway. The other is that the cat is perfectly healthy and lives as long if not longer that any of the other cats the owner has. Back to the going to a breeder or not; it really all boils down to priorities. Truly, Vera's sis:^:
  •  Member Posts: 2,382
    edited 24 November, 2010
    Hey, this is really random, but I thought polydactyl was a disqualification for Main Coons (??)
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 25 November, 2010
    That's great about disabled cats--although does it only apply to the HHP class? I don't know anything about dogs or Dalmatians, but in cats, as you know, the white gene and blue eye gene are linked, and can also be linked to deafness--but not always by a long shot. I used to know the reason for this, but I'm too lazy to look it up. Maybe it's the same with Dalmatians, since they have so much white fur. Hmm, what about blue eyed Huskies? I've never seen kittens/cats for adoption or sale at Japanese CFA shows, but the flyers always mention a "For Sale" fee (i.e. you have to pay extra money if you are going to use the show as a place to sell your cats). Depending on the show venue, you get a lot of people walking around oohing and ahhing over the cats, and you like to think that you are enhancing people's awareness and appreciation of our feline friends.
  • page summerspage summers mishicotMember Posts: 9
    edited 25 November, 2010
    the reason people go to breeders is because if they rent they don\'t have to get permission from the landlord cause the landlord will never find out but when they do there goes the animals to the streets, garbage, kill them or just drop them on the nearest back road and that is why all breeders should be shut down. and if you think about it were do you hear about the animals are killed by the breeders. so stop going to breeders and go to the right place. the place were all these animals will end up at the end animals shelters.
  • Lisa DausmanLisa Dausman Member Posts: 5,216
    edited 25 November, 2010
    This is the Breed Standard for Maine Coons, and yes, in CFA, a polydactal, would be disqualified. Maine Coon Cat POINT SCORE HEAD (30) Shape ...................................................................................... 15 Ears .......................................................................................... 10 Eyes .......................................................................................... 5 BODY (30) Shape ....................................................................................... 15 Neck .......................................................................................... 5 Legs and Feet .......................................................................... 5 Tail ........................................................................................... 5 COAT ......................................................................................... 20 COLOR (15) Body color and pattern ............................................................. 15 BALANCE .................................................................................... 5 PENALIZE: a coat that is short or overall even. DISQUALIFY: delicate bone structure. Undershot chin, i.e. the front teeth (incisors) of the lower jaw overlapping or projecting beyond the front teeth of the upper jaw when the mouth is closed. Crossed eyes. Kinked tail. Incorrect number of toes. White but- t ons, whi t e l ocket s, or whi t e spots. Cats showi ng evi dence of hybr i di zat i on r esul t i ng i n t he col or s chocol at e, l avender , t he Hi ma l a y a n p a t t e r n ; o r u n p a t t e r n e d a g o u t i o n t h e b o d y ( i . e . Abyssinian type ticked tabby). http://www.cfa.org/breeds/standards/maine.pdf http://www.cfa.org/breeds/profiles/maine.html This is the breed standards for TICA for Maine Coons http://www.tica.org/members/publications/standards/mc.pdf http://tica.org/public/breeds/mc/intro.php TICA has a catagory called New Breeds, I have seen poly MC's in them. PROVISIONAL NEW BREEDS, ADVANCED NEW BREEDS, AND NEW TRAITS: These exciting classes are for new breeds and new colors or traits in established breeds. These cats are registered with TICA, but have not yet met the requirements for Championship status. CFA does not allow declawed cats, weather HHP or breed, TICA does allow declawed cats, HHP or breed. Roxy, I know HHP people in NH and VT, if ya ever need a contact or help, let me know, but we all show CFA, would love to have you come to our shows. Roxy is beautiful, just beautiful, would love to go head to head with Bump, mol. I been to some TICA shows, made some great friends, and one we talked into showing CFA, mol, and she has been doing quite well, she is from MD. Don't really care for their cut throat attitude in the ring tho, if you miss a call, they just let you miss it, was getting coffee, didn't hear the call, was on 3rd and final, when I did hear it, they were just going to let me hang in the wind. In CFA, someone will come looking for you, and/or just get your cat and put him in the ring. Out of the ring, they are super, and its only a few. That was at the Weschester show. Was in Lancaster PA and Prowler got sick Sun morn, I pulled him from the rest of the day. Some were downright nasty, said put him in there, and let him get handled. He was the cut off, they needed him, so the Final went from 5 to 10. Ya don't want to know, what, I told them, mol. :)) Prowler is a Grand Master and so is Bump, and we didn't do that many shows. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
  • Elizabeth KElizabeth K ChicagoMember Posts: 11,036
    edited 25 November, 2010
    Yeah polydactyls are DQ in CFA. People are working to get them accepted in TICA's "regular" classes but currently they can be shown in TICA's "New Traits" class. I showed Roxy in New Traits in TICA and when she was a kitten I showed her and my feral rescue Church in CFA as HHPs, since Roxy couldn't be shown as a Maine Coon in CFA. So I've shown HHPs in both CFA and TICA. My youngest cats have only been in TICA though. I like them because you get titles in HHP and HHPs are treated just the same as the purebreds. I've been thinking about taking Harley to a few CFA shows too though because there are only a few TICA shows here a year that I can get to... I've actually found the people in TICA to be really nice (at least in my area) and helpful. When someone didn't show up for a ring or a final, people would go look for them and a few times they got someone's cat out for the ring if they couldn't find the owner and they were about to miss the ring. The judges also usually will wait as long as possible if someone doesn't show up right away for a ring. There are several people/cats we see at every show and they're all very nice, and several of them helped me a lot when I was confused about calculating points. One person helped me a LOT with figuring out points and things even though she is our direct competitor! At most of the shows we've been to there were only ~3 cats in the tabby and white division so Harley is directly competing with her cat, who is also a torbie and white. I usually take one of Harley's brothers so she won't be lonely and they're all tabby and white too, but they don't get many finals like Harley does. They've all been to 1-2 shows and are Master or Grand Masters. My brother is probably going to go to some CFA cat shows in NH, and if I can find any that will be going on when I'm visiting him I'd like to enter. I'll be visiting him next month but I couldn't find any shows nearby when I'll be there, so maybe next time I visit.
  • Lisa DausmanLisa Dausman Member Posts: 5,216
    edited 25 November, 2010
    If you want to pmail me your email, I will pass it on to our HHP board moderator, Sarah, would love to have you join us. I will give you the link, I believe you can read it without joining, but have to join to post. Sarah is in Region 7. :-h http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HHPnCFA/
  • Elizabeth KElizabeth K ChicagoMember Posts: 11,036
    edited 25 November, 2010
    Thanks Bumpurr! =; I actually am a member of that group but I haven't posted there much and not in a long time... I joined it when I was planning to start showing in CFA (so back when Roxy was a kitten, and she just turned 3 :) )
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 25 November, 2010
    Miss Precius, you appear to be one of those people who think bad things about breeders because you don\'t know anything about them. An opinion always has more impact when it\'s backed by facts. If you haven\'t read the entire thread so far, please do so now. It will show you that most of your suppositions are simply not true. Many breeders require proof that a potential buyer lives in a housing situation where cats are allowed. They may also be fussy in other ways--only selling to people who have references, refusing to sell to people who may be cat hoarders, etc. In my country, Japan, breeders are licensed, and are required by law to determine that a potential owner is allowed to keep animals. Pet shops are not, which is why some hobby breeders look down on breeders who sell to pet shops. As I wrote above, there are breeders and then there are breeders. There are extremely responsible breeders, extremely irresponsible breeders, and every kind of variation in between. The claim that \"the reason people go to breeders is because if they rent they don\'t have to get permission from the landlord cause the landlord will never find out but when they do there goes the animals to the streets, garbage, kill them or just drop them on the nearest back road\" is inflammatory and, I would guess, far less true in the case of people who buy purebreds from breeders than in the case of people who get moggies through means other than shelters (by taking in strays, adopting a kitten from an oops litter, etc.). Yes, there are people who buy purebred cats as status symbols, get tired of them, and then get rid of them, but if there were figures available, I am sure that they would show that people who have hundreds or thousands of dollars to spend on buying a cat are less likely to think of it as an expendible item than would someone who has a stray picked up from the street. Although this is a generalization, because buying a purebred cat takes a bit more forethought and research than adopting a shelter kitty (as to which breed to choose, how to choose a breeder, etc.), and because people who can afford to buy a purebred from a breeder are, demographically speaking, probably of a relatively educated and financially secure group, if and when they must relinquish a cat, they are likely (again, this is a generalization) to find a way to rehome their cat (this would include shelters) that does not involve abandoning or, God forbid, killing the cat. Also, don\'t forget that a purebred looking for a new home has a statistically better chance of doing so than a generic moggy. Furthermore, consider the fact that purebreds are less likely than rescued ferals to have health and behavioral problems (again, a generalization, but I believe that statistics would bear me out). Many cats are abandoned when behavioral problems become too much to deal with, or when the owner can\'t afford health care. Do breeders kill their cats? I\'ve heard rumors about kitten mills abandoning cats or killing them, and yes, there are rumors going around about some well-known hobby breeders who have unwanted or deformed cats euthanized or who even kill them themselves (Tylenol works just fine). However, this is the kind of thing that seems to shout \"urban legend\"; again, \"facts\" are far and few to come by. As a breeder, I\'ve kept on cats with health problems rather than sell them without telling the client the truth about their health (which, in theory, could be done). That\'s part of the moral code of being a breeder. Selling a cat who later becomes sick and dies is every breeder\'s worst dream. Don\'t forget that in the days before spay/neuter became the norm, and most cats were indoor/outdoor kitties, many unwanted litters (moggies) were drowned or abandoned, and cats probably tended to have shorter lifespans than they do now, owing to the fact that they lived at least part of the time outdoors, were often fed table scraps or expected to live off the mice they caught, and didn\'t get much in the way of vet care. This was in the day when there were few cat breeds and few people who bred or bought them. Breeders often sell older cats for a very low price when the cat\'s breeding or show career is over. The breeder does as thorough an investigation into each would-be adopter as a shelter would. There is no need for a breeder to abandon cats. (Kitten mills may do so, but that\'s an entirely different world from that of real breeders, and I don\'t know much about it.) Yes, purebreds do end up in shelters, for various reasons including behavioral issues, the owner moving into a place that doesn\'t allow cats, the death of the owner, and so on. No, breeders should not all be \"shut down.\" I\'m a pretty typical breeder, and I only produce one or two litters a year; most catteries are not large businesses that the word \"shut down\" could apply to. If you had read earlier posts, you would see how breeders and the cat fancy support research that benefits all cats (even Miss Precius), not just purebreds (a moggy is just as likely to keel over dead with FIP or HCM as a purebred cat). If you think all purebred cats will end up in shelters, you need a reality check. Also, since you apparently haven\'t read the whole thread, or haven\'t understood what you did read, a large number of cats listed as a certain breed at a shelter are not that breed at all. Shelters not infrequently give breed names to cats in order to make it easier to adopt them out (which gives one the idea that a lot of people secretly like the idea of having a cat with an identifiable breed). Thus, if you go to a shelter and see a bunch of cats with a breed listed, you may take this to mean that purebred cats are likely to end up in shelters. Maine Coons are a naturally occurring cat, and so you see a lot of Maine Coons in shelters. These are not, however, likely to be purebred Maine Coons produced by a cattery, but naturally occurring Maine Coons and MC mixes. Siamese mixes and Persian mixes are not uncommon. But, as I wrote in a previous post, your chances of finding a true Turkish Van or Turkish Angora in a shelter are probably smaller than your chances of winning the lottery. And, since you seem not to have read or believed the content of the thread so far, I will take the liberty of repeating myself: people will always want \"breed\" cats. What is necessary is not legislation that will do away with breeders, but legislation that will make sure that breeders and breeding facilities operate according to strict standards. What is even more important is that these laws be strictly enforced, which would include regular inspections of catteries and the like. If you truly love cats, by definition, you love all cats. Of the breeders and purebred owners I know, most love moggies as much as they do purebreds, and many have moggies in their feline households. More than once I\'ve heard a cat show judge say, \"Oh, I just love Maine Coons. But then again, I love all cats, period.\" I am acquainted with a well-known breeder and cat show judge who gave up breeding to free her time to do rescue work. At the same time, she continues judging at cat shows. It comes down to this: some people want purebred cats, and always will. The point is not to ban purebred cats (via a ban on breeding them), but to make and enforce legislation that makes sure that breeding follows strict standards that make cats\' welfare the primary focus. A true cat lover should love all cats, and feel a kinship with all cat lovers. By the same token, all cat lovers should strive to improve every aspect of the lives of our feline friends, and activate against all practices that can objectively called detrimental to cat welfare. If you truly love cats, Miss Precius, then you should read this thread and get a clearer idea than you seem to have at present of the world of purebred cats and breeders. If that is too much trouble for you, and/or you simply prefer to repeat the largely meaningless and falacious mantra that says \"Breeders are bad, purebreds are bad, and we should get rid of the whole lot of them,\" then you, in my book, are not what I would call a true cat lover. Sorry.
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 25 November, 2010
    Heh heh, I just noticed that all of my posts are in the name of different cats in my cattery: Lowell, Leila, Harvard, and last but certainly not least, Harvey. I could have used generic tabby Spike as my spokesman, but the topic is breeding, so I\'ve let my Maine Coons do the talking for me. But Spike is here and wants to say \"Hi!\" :-h
  • Lisa DausmanLisa Dausman Member Posts: 5,216
    edited 25 November, 2010
    I guess I don't understand, what going to breeders, or not going to breeders, has to do, with living in an apt? Maybe Miss Precius could expand on that, and explain, the basis of her point of view. :-k Yes, I show cats, and yes, Bump and the kittens came from a breeder, but, I also have a rescue cat. Somebody threw out a momma and kittens. A lady at work, found them, and was feeding them, she said something chased the 4 kittens into the woods, and only 3 came back out, so she brought the kittens into work, to try and find them homes. 2 were immediately picked out, 1 was left, nobody wanted him. My supervisor told me, so and so has kittens, she took him out of the carrier, and handed him to me, that was all she wrote, he went home with me. I named him Prowler, because he is all black, not a spec of white on him. The vet said he was prob 6 weeks old, if he was that old. I showed him on the HHP circuit, and he won many championships and high points, not bad, for a kitten somebody threw out, and nobody wanted, twice. I took him off the circuit, had too many probs from spectators, too many tried to steal him, he is all black. Which is why, I don't put his page up, nobody wants to see, the trouble, I will cause, if he should get, even one, threat. CFA judges are breeders, its a requirement in the long list of requirements of being a judge. Most all of them share a story, of rescue kitties that have taken in, or just taken in. So, not all show people are bad, and not all breeders are bad. I know alot of breeders from the circuit, they all bend over backwards, to make sure the kitten or cat, has a good home, weather it be a show quality kitten, a pet quality kitten, or a retired show cat, that needs a home, and they will keep the kittens, that for whatever reason, cannot be sold, or found a good home.
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 25 November, 2010
    Some rescue services require you to show a copy of your lease, or get a signed form from your landlord, showing that you are entitled to keep cats in your place. Usually that would be an apartment, but it could include a rented house, a trailer court, etc. While we don't have shelters per se in Japan, we do have a rescue network. They ask you if you're allowed to keep cats, but in my experience, they don't actually ask for paperwork, or at least I've met don't. What they DO do is bring the cat to your address, not so that they can see inside, but so that they can tell that you really live where you say you do. I think there are various reasons for this, but the main one is that they want to make sure that you're a real person living in a real place, not a front for a laboratory, etc. that might do experiments on the kitty or worse.
  • Elizabeth KElizabeth K ChicagoMember Posts: 11,036
    edited 25 November, 2010
    Hey I just wanted to say, I doubt the majority of people who go to the trouble of finding a cat breeder and purchasing a purebred cat would do it a)just to "trick" their landlord and b) just to dump them later. Personally my brother and I took several years in the process of visiting breeders and choosing a breeder and then waiting for the right kitten, before we finally brought Roxy home. We started looking for and visiting breeders in summer/fall 2005 and Roxy came home in Jan 2008. We were on the breeder's waiting list for approx a year.
  • Elizabeth KElizabeth K ChicagoMember Posts: 11,036
    edited 25 November, 2010
    Hi Harley was just feeling left out since Roxy got to do all the posting for our family in this thread so I wanted to post under her name once! Also wanted to mention that along with Roxy (our first purebred) we also have 6 rescue cats, 5 who were rescued as feral kittens and one who was essentially dumped at 12 years old. Harley was one of the feral rescues and she has done very well in the cat shows. I rescued her and her 6 littermates as 3 week old babies. (she's still listed as TGM even though she's really a Quad(QGM) because I haven't sent a title confirmation yet.)
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 26 November, 2010
    It makes me sad that some people have such a negative and inaccurate picture of the world of purebred cats and breeders. Sure, there are kitten mills and sleazy breeders and sleazy owners, but I wish people would not think that sleazebags are the norm. As an American expatriate, I see the U.S. from a slightly different vantage point than people living in the U.S. To me, it seems that in politics and religion, and yes, in the world of cat ownership, a lot of people feel safer believing simple, inflammatory slogans rather than investigating the facts and discovering the truth by themselves. However, it is also true that I can't say that I know all the facts about this issue, either. I've spent some time looking up topics such as kitten mills and the cat overpopulation problem in the U.S., and there seems to be a surprising lack of factual information. That doesn't mean that I doubt these problems exist. I realize that a subject such as the cat overpopulation problem (when did it start to get bad? What was the situation in the past? What are the numbers involved? What are the reasons for it?) is extremely complex, and that facts may not be readily forecoming. It would certainly make an interesting government study or doctoral dissertation. Perhaps because I am a researcher by profession, I dislike it when people embrace simple ideas as truth, when those ideas either haven't been tested, or are only part of the truth, or are not true at all.
  • janice lancasterjanice lancaster temple gaMember Posts: 2,505
    edited 26 November, 2010
    The whole thing makes no sense to me either...Meowma wants (ai-yi-yi) a round headed orange kitty and a "mese"of some kind (If purebred, Burmese or Tonk--if not Siamese would do too). One will probably be PB, one not. If there is a city with bunches of dumped out purebreds running the street, I'd like to go to the shelter in that city--maybe Miss P can tell us where it is.
  • Lisa DausmanLisa Dausman Member Posts: 5,216
    edited 26 November, 2010
    Well, if ya think about it, the average person, can't look at a cat, and tell you what breed the cat is. Most average people would not know, the confirmation requirements of a breed cat. Most would look at what is considered the apple headed Siamese, and say with confidence, that is a Siamese. Well, no, its not, its a Siamese mix, because the purebred registered Siamese breed cats, look nothing like that. And most people could not look at a cat, with a smushed in face, and tell you, weather its a Persian, Himalayan or an Exotic. Breeders would know, show people would know. And most people could not look at a LH pointed cat, with blue eyes, and tell you if its a Ragdoll or a Birman. And actually, even if one was handed one of those cats, or can across one in a shelter, unless they have papers, one cannot say for a certain, that is a purebred cat. And most people, when they make a statement, can back it up with facts, and not be afraid, to back up their statement. And I have read and re-read Miss P's post, and I still cannot figure out what she is talking about, and if she was so sure, she was right, she would be back on here, defending her statement, and with facts, to back it up, for those that did not believe her. I wish she would come back, nice to hear another person's point of view, and join in the discussion. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
«134
Sign In or Register to comment.

Welcome to the new Catster Community!

Introduce the community to your pet with our Pet Profiles and discover how to use the new community with our Getting Started pages!


Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!