Why Do People Go To Breeders?

24

Comments

  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 26 November, 2010
    Especially with facts! Several times, I've started threads asking for information about the cat overpopulation program, and no one was able to provide any hard facts. Maybe one person. The few others who responded generally toed the party line: overpopulation is because of breeders. Get rid of breeders and no more problems. Over and out. What is frightening, as anyone in the cat fancy knows, is that there is legislation pending that could make breeding extremely difficult--of course, this differs from state to state. I'm all for regulations regarding health, etc., but eradicating breeding will have no effect on the shelter overpopulation problem (well, maybe a very, very small effect), and simply end up with the extinction of the many breeds who make up the cat world. Short-term thinking by ailurophobes. (Shaking head with disgust emoticon.)
  • Jane JohnstonJane Johnston NMMember Posts: 2,957
    edited 27 November, 2010
    I met the Savannah and fell in love with them. But I also have a rescue cat. And I have had rescue and PB cats. Padfoot had many health and temperament issues. So I guess I was also looking for someone who was really taking care to get healthy socialized kittens. BTW, an applehead Siamese could be recognized as TICA is registering them (though as Thai.)
  • Lisa DausmanLisa Dausman Member Posts: 5,216
    edited 27 November, 2010
    I show on the CFA circuit, and when I referred to rules and such, I meant, CFA, sorry was not more clear on that, mol. :)) And TICA has classes, for New Breeds, or something to that effect, forget the exact terminology now, one of which is poly Maine Coon's, I believe, altho not certain, these cats are registered, but not eligable to show in the Championship classes, would have to look it up again. TICA also "registeres" their HHP's, and gives them titles, just like the breed cats. I only did a few TICA shows, showed HHP, and showed an Exotic for a friend. Breeders require a kitten be spayed/neutered, along with a plethera of other requirements, some have pages and pages of requiremtent, and ya sign a contract. When you show proof of spay/neuter, you are sent the papers, and, you have already paid full purchase price, before you even take the kitten, so nobody is going to pay that kind of price, then not spay/neuter to get the papers. And along with all the other requirements, some even require a vet reference, the breeder is pretty confident, the kitten will be spayed/neutered. Never heard one story, of a breeder complaining, the buyer did not spay/neuter. A breeder will only sell a whole kitten to a very very knowledgeable show person, who may want to show a whole kitten and/or use the kitten in a breeding program. These requirements are beyond overly pickey, they just don't hand them out like candy on halloween. The average person is not, at all, going to walk away with a whole kitten. The reason for these very strick requirments, is the breeder has worked very hard, to find and maintaine the line he/she has, and the resulting Championship kitties. They want their line and reputation kept intact. They don't want the kitten bred with a registered kitty, of what might be considered lower or not show quality, then the line, with their name on it, is now, watered down, per say, for lack of a better word. So, its not the breeders who are contributing to the over population, those kittens are spayed/neutered, and whole kittens sold to very responsible buyers, very responsible. The over population is caused by the average person, who does not spay/neuter the kitten, weather is be because of ignorance, or lack or funds, or just not caring in general, or some are just too lazy, to get the kitten done. The zillon ads you see on TV to spay/neuter your pet, are aimed at the general public, to educate them, and they have low cost spay/neuter clinics, you just have to search for them. And if ya don't believe me, if your so sure I am wrong, ask your friends and neighbors who have kitties, if the kitty is spayed/neuter, yes, some will say yes, but the majority of them, will say no. Then ask them why, and take a min to educate them. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
  • Jane JohnstonJane Johnston NMMember Posts: 2,957
    edited 27 November, 2010
    The local TICA show was sponsored by breeders who generally support rescue. Yep breeders are NOT the problem. I mean real breeders, not the kitten mill types. Or your neighbors down the street that wanted their children to see a litter of kittens. BTW, I admit that TICA allows some odd things. NOt sure I really approve of deliberately breeding polydactals (though generally they have no problems) or Munchkins. OTOH, they did take back the Siamese (by calling it a Thai). And they allow Savannahs and Bengals. I can't speak re: Bengals but Savannahs are amazing cats. --des
  • Elizabeth KElizabeth K ChicagoMember Posts: 11,036
    edited 27 November, 2010
    TICA already allows polydactyly in Pixie Bobs, so I don't know why they're resistant to allowing it in Maine Coons since polydactyly was present from the start. Roxy is a CFA Maine Coon, she came with CFA registration. Polydactyls can be registered with CFA they just cannot be shown (in purebred classes.) The class where Maine Coon polydactyls can be shown in TICA is called New Traits, but a group of people are trying to get polys allowed in the championship classes too. There are no health effects associated with the form of polydactyly that Maine Coons have. Some people believe the polydactyl Maine Coons to be more intelligent, they definitely have increased dexterity, and they tend to have heavier bone structure which is desirable-- in fact some show breeders will breed to polys for that reason (to get better bone structure.) Several judges have commented on Roxy having good bone structure, and I can definitely attest to the dexterity-- she basically has opposable thumbs which she can use to grab and hold things and to climb vertical surfaces(if there are 'toe holds'.) Polydactyl Maine Coons have been around since the breed was created, they were part of the original native cat population Maine Coons were bred from as well as being fairly common to the breed once they were established (some sources say that 40% of Maine Coons were polydactyl in the early purebred population). When the Maine Coons were being submitted for acceptance into cat associations, the intent was for the polydactyls to be added to the standard once the breed was given full status.
  • Elizabeth KElizabeth K ChicagoMember Posts: 11,036
    edited 27 November, 2010
    Just wanted to add, I agree RESPONSIBLE breeders are NOT the problem when it comes to pet overpopulation. As already said they generally are very picky about who gets their kittens and they have contracts and requirements (not to mention asking a lot of questions before letting someone have a kitten.) If it were breeders that were the main contributors to the overpopulation problems, then most of the cats you see in shelters and pounds would be purebred and that is obviously not the case.
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 28 November, 2010
    I wrote this in one of my mammoth posts, but I suspect that some people think there are more purebreds in shelters than there really are because shelters sometimes give moggies a breed name in order to up their chances of getting adopted. I've never been in an American shelter, but if I visited one, and saw a lot of cats labeled "Turkish Angora" "Ocicat" and such, if I didn't know anything about breeds, I'd think that a lot of people were dumping purebreds on shelters, too. On an unrelated note, Lowell made Grand Premier with the CFA at today's show. It took him only two shows--faster than Harvard. If I wanted to make him a Regional Winner, I'm sure I could, but there are two Maine Coons running neck to neck right now, and I sort of don't want to disturb their equilibrium. One of them is competing for the number one spot, and if I join the mix, although I'll never catch up with the two MCs who already have a lot of points, I will almost certainly make the MC who is close to being #1 lose his standing. Hmm...
  • Jane JohnstonJane Johnston NMMember Posts: 2,957
    edited 28 November, 2010
    Oh gosh I stand corrected on polydactalism. Actually I met some of Hemingway's cats in Key West (well the descedents anyway). I think a good third of them are polydactals. Also I had a neighbor with a polydactal (not MC). Six was very cute and amazing. (I thought I read that it could lead to problems if deliberately bred for, not as a random thing. Perhaps I am also mistaken here.) The breed thing with shelters is really quite funny sometimes. They will come up with all sorts of rare breeds. I would guess Turkish Angora is not so rare, it was a natural breed after all. Same with MC. However, they really can come up with odd stuff. Also I know with dogs they like to say that some popular breed is in the mix. For instance, they will take an obvious Dachy mix and say it is a corgi mix since it is more popular. I suppose the down side to this is that people are under the impression that there are really a very high no. of purebred cats. (Dogs are a bit different since purebred is quite common.) --des
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 29 November, 2010
    Yes, the point about cats being unlike dogs in that most cats are simply generic is right on the mark. That is probably one reason why people who don't know cats very well always think a cat has to have a breed. Regarding Turkish Angoras, Wikipedia has this to say: The Turkish Angora, which was brought to the United States in 1963, was accepted as a championship pedigreed breed in 1973 by the Cat Fanciers' Association. ...While numbers are still relatively small, the gene pool and base of fanciers are growing. Yes, Turkish Angoras are indigenous cats, and were probably brought to the West by the same route as Persians, but the cats considered true Turkish Angoras by the Turkish government were saved by a breeding program in the early 20th century. I'm assuming, as can be gleaned from the quote above, that they are still not as common as some other breeds in the U.S. In my mother's day, any long-haired (especially white) cat was called an Angora, but most of the cats I've seen on Catster who are labeled "Turkish Angora" (and basically all of the rescued ones) would be, I'm pretty sure, considered domestic long/medium hairs. I have several Turkish Angora breeder friends in Japan (for some reason the breed is rather popular here), and they produce some international winners. Turkish Angoras have a distinctive look (tall, erect ears; svelte; medium length fur), and while show quality cats may put on some weight after their show career is over, I doubt that they become as big as some of the cats on Catster who claim to be TAs. Maine Coons are different, at least partly because they are indigenous to the U.S. Their genetic influence is quite common. Oh,and the CFA Breed Profile for TAs has this to say: One of the most outgoing and affectionate of all cat breeds, the rare and beautiful Turkish Angora has a fascinating history and is considered a national treasure in its native land. ... Most likely, the breed originated in the mountainous regions of Turkey, where it developed an unusually soft, medium-long coat for protection against the harsh winters. Possibly it evolved from the Manul cat, a small feline domesticated by the Tartars. This pure, natural breed can trace its written history as far back as 16th-century France. However, in the early 1900s, it was used indiscriminately in Persian breeding programs and virtually disappeared as a separate breed. For many years, all longhaired cats were referred to simply as Angoras. Fortunately for cat lovers, controlled breeding programs had been set up in Turkey to preserve this living treasure. There, in the 1950s, at the Ankara Zoo, the Turkish Angora was discovered by American servicemen and re-introduced to the cat fancy. All Turkish Angoras registered by CFA must be able to trace their ancestry back to Turkey. Although the first import on record arrived in the U.S. in 1954, it was not until the mid-1960s that the breed became numerous enough to seek recognition from CFA. White Turkish Angoras were accepted for registration in 1968, for Provisional Breed competition in 1970, and for Champion-ship competition in 1972. The first CFA grand champion, GC NoRuz Kristal of Azima, came in 1976. However, it took another two years before colored Turkish Angoras were permitted to compete in Championship with their all-white siblings. If the CFA says a cat is rare, I tend to believe them!
  • Leanne FroebelLeanne Froebel Member Posts: 1,730
    edited 29 November, 2010
    I'm a little late getting into this post, but I agree with what has already been said. Responsible breeders are NOT the problem. Irresponsible people who do not spay and neuter are the problem. There will always be people who desire purebreds. Purebreds tend to be more predictable in terms of adult appearance, size, and (to an extent) personality. Some colors found in purebreds are not found in the domestic population. Other people enjoy showing cats. Not all breeds are genetically modified. Many breeds are actually natural (such as Korats). Other breeds (like the Rex breeds) are the result of spontaneous mutations in the domestic population. Many domestic mix cats can resemble purebreds, but only purebreds will breed true to type. I wonder why it is so much more "acceptable" to own a purebred dog? Owning a purebred cat seems to rock the boat sometimes so to speak. Some people, quite frankly, seem shocked when they find out I own two purebred cats (I also have one shelter cat). My European Burmese (Linus) and my Tonkinese (Rider) are beautiful cats with wonderful personalities. I also enjoy showing them. Their adoption experiences were good and I have grown to be friends with their breeders. Quite frankly, my shelter cats have had health issues and have actually ended up being more expensive than my purebreds. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from adoption/rescue, and I love my shelter cats dearly, but know that (for lack of a better phrase) you're likely getting a "fixer-upper". Shelters and Rescues do the best they can, but they only have so much space, staff, time, and money. Lots of people mistakenly think a purebred could just stay with the breeder. A breeder cannot keep every cat and kitten they produce. Most breeders like to keep their cattery numbers small so they can give the cats the attention and care they deserve. Responsible breeders actually lose money. Showing their cats to make sure they meet the breed standard, stud fees, vet bills, buying new cats to avoid inbreeding, food, litter, ect. adds up fast. Responsible breeders breed for the love of their chosen breed and strive to breed cats that are healthy and meet the breed standard. In any given litter, there will be "pet quality" kittens that cannot be used in a responsible breeding program or shown in the purebred classes. These kittens cannot stay with the breeder forever and must find loving pet homes. Purebred or mix, all kitties deserve loving homes.
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 29 November, 2010
    Couldn't have said it better myself, Linus! Some people say that dogs have breeds because the different breeds have different "jobs." Yeah, like most people nowadays use their dogs for herding sheep or whatever. The last time I looked at the CFA website, I saw that some legal restrictions that affect even hobby breeders have been passed, and that more are in the offing. The sad thing is when people lump kitten mills and backyard breeders together with small-scale hobby breeders. And unfortunately the people who pass these laws are often swayed by the argument that buying cats from breeders endangers the lives of shelter cats, and/or purebred cats are contributing to the cat overpopulation problem. Better that legal measures be taken to do away with puppy/kitten mills, and pass and enforce laws requiring catteries to be hygienic and humane.
  • Elizabeth KElizabeth K ChicagoMember Posts: 11,036
    edited 29 November, 2010
    Hermoine- There are different types/forms of polydactyl in cats. There is the most common type and then there are other types. Some of the other types can cause issues/problems in cats so yes certain type of polydactyl would be bad to breed. The common type is not related to any issues or abnormalities. Maine Coons polydactyly is the common/harmless type. The gene that causes polydactyl Maine Coons is not connected with any other problems and is not harmful if polys are bred together, so there are no issues related to breeding poly Maine Coons.
  • Susanna CookSusanna Cook Member Posts: 768
    edited 29 November, 2010
    Many people just want a particular breed to be proud of and to brag, "I have a purebred!" But it overall it just depends on your opinion. I agree that it is better to just go to the pound though. One reason is because it is generally much cheaper, and another reason is because of exactly what you said: There are so many homeless cats and dogs out there that need to be saved and people deserve to be considered heroes for overcoming their urge to get a "purebred" when there are many other cats and dogs that actually do need help. All of my cats came from the animal shelter, except for Misty, who was being thrown around and miss treated by a bunch of boys as a young kitten and we decided to rescue her from the abuse she was going through. She still tends to be a bit flinchy and nervous from time to time by instinct, but overall, she's a really sweet cat. I tag all my cats as Domestic Shorthairs, or a mixture of many different breeds, and I'm proud of that enough to not go hunting out for a breeder. Now, I will give the people who do go to breeders for cats and dogs one thing. Think about what would happen to the breeders and purebred cats if there weren't people going out to buy them? Well, the cats would probably just be put in a pound like any other cat. But what about the breeders? They would not have their job if it were not for these people. I'm not saying they do it for that reason, but I'm just giving them a point. Now, the kind of person like you and me would do this. If we wanted a cat, we'd head out to the pound. I'm happy to help those pets with no home and are in risk of being killed. My hypothesis is, so are you. |$||$||$|
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 29 November, 2010
    Yes, I'm sure there are people who get purebred cats as a status symbol, especially people who go in for the latest "fad" breed. But I'm not sure they're in the majority. I think most people who buy purebreds just fall in love with that particular breed's look and temperament. Yes, being able to brag that your cat cost thousands of dollars may be an ego booster for some people, but not all pedigreed cats are that expensive. Also, don't forget that shelter cats cost money, too. As for "breeding" being a "job"--I have no knowledge about kitten mills or backyard breeders; I assume they make some money from breeding. Your average hobby breeder will have perhaps 2-3 litters per year, keep adult cats for breeding, and also have show cats, altered, retired show/breeding cats, and the odd moggy or two thrown in. Most breeders don't do it for the money--you're more likely to go into the red than make a profit. At best, the money you make will pay for keeping the cats you have and participating in cat shows. Thus, the expression "hobby breeders." It's an expensive hobby, take my word for it.
  • Lisa DausmanLisa Dausman Member Posts: 5,216
    edited 29 November, 2010
    OK Socko, that is a fair question, what would breeders do, if nobody bought the purebred kitties, or something to that effect. :D People who do not show, may not realize it, but there are an awful lot of show kitties out there, an awful lot. The average show, in CFA, ballpark, pulls in about 200 cats, per show. This is just one show. You have ballpark, every weekend, about 3-4 shows going on, every weekend, and that is in just one Region. Multiply that by all the Regions out there, all states, plus Japan and other countries, and that is an awful awful awful lot of show kitties. Thats not even counting TICA or some of the smaller organizations. So unless some catastrophy happens, that wipes out all the CFA and TICA shows and people, people are going to go to breeders, for show kitties. Thats not even counting, the average person, who wants a breed kitty. :D In the horse world, we have a saying, it costs the same to feed a registered horse, as it does a grade horse. Shelters are full, of unwanted cats and dogs, where did they come from? How many breed cats, do you really see, in shelters? Not from breeders, who breed purebred registered cats. They come from John Q Public, who does not, spay/neuter their kitties, for whatever reason. :D
  • Jane JohnstonJane Johnston NMMember Posts: 2,957
    edited 29 November, 2010
    Thanks for your comments re: polydactal MCs. As for the status symbol. I'm sure that exists. I did not get a Savannah as a status symbol, even though they are pricey (I don't think I ever told anyone how much I paid). I got a Savannah as I fell in love with the breed. And yes, I have/had rescue cats. BTW, re: Turkish Angoras. I say in Padfoot's profile that he is TA/cross. Honestly I am not sure, but the circumstances around his adoptation are very curious-- and not the typical story. There is also a fairly disreputable pet store selling puppy/kitty mill pets. Churning out kittens is not hard, esp if you are in Missouri (I am not but I understand most mill pets are from MO.) I also have a mill dog (rescue) and there are a lot of similarities. But gosh knows I could be wrong. :) Padfoot is a rescue so I would never know, and whatever he is he is gorgeous and I love him (trouble though he may be.) (I'm signing on as Padfoot so you can see him.) --des
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 30 November, 2010
    Hmm, with only two photos, it's hard to tell. I'm used to seeing Turkish Angoras at shows in the Longhair rings, and there are several very good and very active TA breeders in Japan. However, the show-type TA you can see on the CFA TA Breed Profile page, and the pictures of TAs from the Ankara Zoo do look somewhat different, even though TAs are all supposed to be able to prove that they have an actual Turkish cat in their ancestry.
  • Lisa DausmanLisa Dausman Member Posts: 5,216
    edited 30 November, 2010
    Here is a link on Turkish Angora's. :D http://www.cfa.org/breeds/profiles/turkish-angora.html
  • Jane JohnstonJane Johnston NMMember Posts: 2,957
    edited 30 November, 2010
    This is a bit OT but: I'll try to post some better pictures, if I can. He is more clunky than would be considered desirable. He has the same coat type (silky non-matting) and blue eyes. He is mostly white with pale reddish markings. He has lots of behavior traits I see associated with TAs-- extremely active, very playful, extremely social, and into things. But as I said, there is no proof that he came from bad pet store mill as a "purebred TA". (Of course, anyone running a mill doesn't really care much for what other blood they throw in or how close to breed standard it might be). The situation with Padfoot is just rather odd. NO shelter would have adopted to 3-4 college Freshman girls. Bad pet store mill would be delighted to take the money. I also have a purebred Pembroke Welsh Corgi who I know was a mill dog. (I got from a rescue group.) She is so off standard that she is 10 lbs lighter and quite a few people ask if she is a purebred. Of course, I don't actually know for sure. I assume so, just because she is totally corgi. That said, I got the cat from rescue. He has been major dollars with lots of health issues and had major behavior issues. I am more curious about this than really think it is important. I don't care as he has become a very nice cat. --des
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 30 November, 2010
    Since I don\'t live in America, I don\'t know much about things like kitten mills (although I\'ve heard that they exist in Japan), and I don\'t know how popular or common TAs are. More to the point, I\'m not sure if kitten mills would be producing them. In Japan, the pet store chain that has a branch in my neighborhood sells only the breeds/colors that are popular with the Japanese. Russian Blues, Abyssinians, silver tabby American Shorthairs, Chinchilla Silver Persians, Norwegian Forest Cats, Scottish Folds, Ragdolls, American Curls, Munchkins, and brown or red tabby Maine Coons are about all you\'ll ever see. Not all people who sell to pet stores are backyard breeders or kitten mills (although I\'m sure it depends on the pet store). My mentor sells to pet stores, BUT only if she has a request for a certain color that the pet store she works with doesn\'t have. Her cats aren\'t forced to live in glass cages and have children tease them. I\'ve never seen a Turkish Angora in a pet store, although I do see them at cat shows.
  • SterlingAndTheSTeamSterlingAndTheSTeam Mount OliveMember Posts: 41,262 ✭✭✭
    edited 30 November, 2010
    I\'m considered a \"national treasure\" at my house. That means I\'m at least part Angora .... yes??? :-k
  • Jane JohnstonJane Johnston NMMember Posts: 2,957
    edited 1 December, 2010
    I don't go to pet stores that even sell cats or dogs. It isn't too common here. But there are stores that sell them. Don't know what they sell. Needless to say bad place to get a dog or cat. And perhaps part of the overbreeding problem in some places. --des
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 1 December, 2010
    Hmm...I really don't know. Probably all long haired kitties are somehow related to long haired cats that originally came from Persia and Turkey on sailing ships...er, the sailors sailed the ships, the cats were just there for the ride and for catching rodents. Pet stores still sell purebred animals in Japan, but from what I hear, you don't make much selling to pet stores. My breeder always charged around $800 per cat, regardless of so-called "quality" (show quality, pet quality, etc.). For $500 more, he'd throw in breeding rights as well. Another breeder I deal with charges about the same. I think I've heard that if you sell a cat to a pet shop, you get only around $200-$300 per cat. When you consider all the expenses necessary for keeping a cattery, and for vaccinations and examinations for the kittens, the only way you're going to break even with prices like that is to sell lots and lots of kittens. I don't have the physical or emotional stamina for that. My breeder's breeder produces a lot of kittens, but she has a gift for seeking out excellent cats for her breeding team, and her kittens are all very good quality and well-socialized. Let's just say that she has more energy than I do. She also lives in a house, which helps--it's not impossible to breed in an apartment, but you sort of have to forget about any human-only rooms.
  • Debra PietrowskiDebra Pietrowski Sussex CountyMember Posts: 1,833
    edited 1 December, 2010
    *sitting back reading all these interesting posts* :-O =; thumbs up to all my purebreed friends and HHP show kitties.
  • Dayna HickmanDayna Hickman ChesterMember Posts: 2,149
    edited 1 December, 2010
    Oh goodness! Good job to the pure-breeders! I personally doubt I will ever purchase a kitty, just for the simple fact that I don't have a favorite! When we did go looking for a cat we wanted a "classical tabby", the lady at the shelter informed me that she had the most beautiful "torbie" I had no idea what it was. Now i have Maple, a Classical tabby/torti cross in coloring. She has the sweetest personality and I'm happy as a lark. On the other hand, I am a bit more of a "dog" person. I did indeed choose Paisley, my doberman, for her working abilities. And in our area, dogs are very much used to hunt with. I did not purchase either of our pups either though, I still rescued them. I may purchase a dog from a breeder one day, for the simple fact that Dobermans (and other breeds) come with natural health problems and it's very much a crap-shoot when you rescue a dog as to his/her background. I'll be super joyful if Paisley makes it to nine years old. I'll probably do genetic testing to be sure she doesn't have wobblers syndrome or the like ::o A pet from a good breeder will have his/her genetics already proven so I won't have to worry about things like that. I'm sure it's the same in kitties. I didnt know America had kitten mills though, I don't ever see them sold anywhere... BYBs yes, mills?? hmmm...
  • Lisa DausmanLisa Dausman Member Posts: 5,216
    edited 1 December, 2010
    Apollo...... I dun told ya, like about a hundred times, mol, ya ain't, a Turkish Angora, mol. :)) :)) :)) Turkish Angora's got a slim build, kinda like an Arab, you, on the other hand, got a bigger build, kinda like a Quarter Horse. TA's got a narrow face, yours is broad, more like a MC or RD. TA's got bat like ears, your ears don't look anything like that. TA's fur is long, but not like yours, yours is very long and thick, more like a RD. :-O Kitties, beware, if ya ever go on a hay ride, don't let Apollo, drive the horsies, mol. He makes them jump streams, mol, kittens were hanging on for dear life, mol, mol, mol. ::o Hey Apollo!! :-h
  • Jane JohnstonJane Johnston NMMember Posts: 2,957
    edited 1 December, 2010
    Though the pet stores I am speaking of are not charging $800 for a cat. And they churn out kittens and puppies. They don't give a darn about the health of the kittens. Heart problems, kidney disorders, etc etc. will all be in the gene pool. (Same with puppy mills and a pox on all their houses.) Mixing breeds willy nilly (a TA and an MC mix for instance)or down right selling mixed breeds as purebreds are all par for the course. The reason kitten mills aren't more of a problem is that more people aren't interested in purebred cats. AKC (the Am. Kennel Club-- or always keeping cash) has done its share in registering mill dogs, and making a neat $50 or so on each registry. Hermione (the Savannah)'s breeder couldn't have been more different and only because most of the cats raised cost more than Hermione did would she make any money at all for vet bills. If she looses a cat at birth, she'll do research to figure out waht the problem is. This is not the pet store thing. And you would never get a good purebred cat at a pet store. --des
  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 1 December, 2010
    Actually, oddly enough, you can get a good purebred at a pet store in Japan, if you luck out. Unfortunately, you won't get to see the pedigree until after you've bought the cat, so it's sort of like Christmas--you might be very pleased or very disappointed. Someone I know got a cat from a pet shop who had parents from one of the best Maine Coon catteries in Japan. And I know that that cattery would not be pleased to know that cats with their name on their pedigree were being sold in pet shops. Pet shops sell purebred kittens (usually around two months of age, too young to be away from Momcat and the sibs) for around $2000-$3000. As I wrote above, the breeder who sells a cat to a pet shop makes only a small fraction of this. If you're a breeder, and advertise on the Internet or in a magazine, you get to keep all the money you charge for the cat except what you owe the advertiser. If you sell through your own website or by word of mouth, you get all of what you charge for your cat. What to charge for a cat is always an interesting problem. If you charge too much, you may have trouble selling your cats unless you're a famous cattery. If you charge too little, people may think you have substandard cats. My own breeder found that when he upped the prices of his cats slightly they sold better. Go figure. Cats are not usually altered before being sold in Japan, but lately breeders require that proof of spay/neuter is provided before a pedigree is handed over. If the kittens are registered with the CFA, for example, you can specify that the cat is "not for breeding," which means that any kittens the cat may produce cannot be registered with the CFA, although they can get pedigrees. This may not be an ideal situation, but it's the way it's done in Japan.
  • Elizabeth KElizabeth K ChicagoMember Posts: 11,036
    edited 1 December, 2010
    That's interesting about pet shops in Japan. My brother told me he saw pet stores selling purebred cats when he was visiting Japan (he actually sent me some photos from one) but I didn't know they actually sell "good quality" purebreds. I don't think I've ever seen purebred cats for sale in pet shops around here. The few pet shops I've seen that had kittens for sale, they were domestic shorthairs, not purebreds. I don't think I've heard of "kitten mills" here either, definitely not to the extent of the puppy mill problem in the US.
  • Debra PietrowskiDebra Pietrowski Sussex CountyMember Posts: 1,833
    edited 2 December, 2010
    OMC - im giggling my tushy off at Bumps post.. HEY, hay.. I wanna go on a hayride with Apollo driving.. it could be a good time, lets split a bottle fur that one ! MOL :))! Now where the heck is that cat? Apollooooooo? where are you?
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