My topic closed by HQ. Sorry...

Joy WaltersJoy Walters Member Posts: 9,276
edited 2 June, 2008 in Other Meows & Purrs
On Monday, Beatrice, our moderator, wrote: \"The Spirit of Catster: This site is for the love of cats. It is about caring and support. It is about fun, friendly and informational sharing of our passion for our furry friends... \" \"Please remember that, even if you truly believe your position is right, that being unkind or going on a rant without knowing the situation is not acceptable. \" My intent was truly not to be perceived as being \"unkind\" or going \"on a rant\". And part of \"sharing my (our) passion for (and responsibility to) our furry friends\" is protecting them and making sure they live long, happy and safe lives. I am truly grateful to our friend Harvey who understood what was in my heart and on my mind, and I truly appreciate his kind words. I would like to sincerely apologize to Catster and it\'s members if I offended anyone with my topic/postings. Those who \"know\" me on this site and have read my 700+ answers know that I care very deeply for not only the cats, but their owners as well and would NEVER intentionally be nasty or hurtful to either. Once again, I am truly sorry if I offended anyone.

Comments

  • Valerie DurhamValerie Durham Member Posts: 8,724
    edited 7 May, 2008
    Yes, I\'m glad I got my two cents in moments after Izzie posted in the now-closed thread, because when I looked at it later, I could see where it was going...in the same direction as that thread in the Food forum a while back: being closed down by HQ. I think Beatrice\'s words were on the mark. As one poster once wrote somewhere, \"I come home from work, I\'m tired and I\'ve had a hard day, and I go to Catster to cheer myself up.\" We want to continue making Catster a happy, friendly place for everyone--a place both to commune and to communicate. At the same time, not all the topics covered on Catster are going to be fun and pleasant. Our main concern is our love for our kitties and ALL kitties, and sometimes that involves bringing up topics, such as the spay/neuter matter, that can be divisive. We must learn how to communicate our views (for certainly we are allowed to have views!) in ways that will not hurt others. And we must learn to accept the fact that, at the end of the day, there are certain topics on which not everyone is going to agree. In other words, we have to learn to agree to disagree--both gracefully and tactfully. I learned two things from this experience: that the written word can be far more hurtful than would be the same opinion given by mouth; and that there are many, many more variations among Catster members than I had previously thought. The one thing holding us together is our love of cats, but even that love may be expressed differently according each Catster. The absolute worst thing that could happen here (and has at times seemed in danger of happening) would be for an atmosphere of elitism to come to dominate Catster. On the surface of things, it is easy enough to say that if someone can\'t afford to spay/neuter their cat, then they shouldn\'t have one. Or that a person who doesn\'t serve so-and-so food isn\'t a responsible owner. But if you start that line of reasoning, you can end up sounding frighteningly Fascist. The list could end up going on and on: physically disabled people who can\'t always give their cats optimum care shouldn\'t have cats; economically-challenged people shouldn\'t have cats; people who don\'t know how to research things on the Internet shouldn\'t have cats. We don\'t want to go that far, do we? If we did, I for one would probably be counted as an irresponsible owner, since before I had my hips replaced, I was unable to clean the litter box as often as I should have. (But Spot forgave me anyway.) And now, Harvey and Co. would like to take the opportunity to apologize sincerely and abjectly for having made downright rude and obnoxious posts upon occasion. When we first joined Catster a little over a month ago, we were carried away by this wonderful site about the thing that means the most to us--CATS--and that would give us live feedback! We got a little too frisky and fresh in our answers, and probably have hurt the feelings of more posters than we realize. Having finally learned what harm the written word can do, and having come to realize that, as Beatrice said, we do NOT know the exact circumstances of people writing in to this site, we are going to make every effort to keep our claws sheathed, and play like nice kitties from now on. :) Purrs to everyone! |^|
  • Joy WaltersJoy Walters Member Posts: 9,276
    edited 7 May, 2008
    Once again, thank you Harvey for understanding (and also posting) what is on my mind and in my heart. I have certainly learned what my parameters are on this site and will respectfully and carefully abide by them from now on. |^| for all the kitties, Izzie's Mom
  • Tanya MundyTanya Mundy boulderMember Posts: 763
    edited 7 May, 2008
    oddly, (and maybe i just missed the post in question), i've never seen Izzy be rude. "cold" perhaps. factual. "life sucks and there are ways to prevent it". but not rude. See, i really get annoyed with those who assume that their way is the only way, or the best way, or the right way. BUT, i also knwo how important education is. and to me, from what i've read, Izzy usually walks that line quite well. Where i see most of the elitism is in the food dept, and i just scream sometimes. but, such is life. I remember a poster who said "if you can't afford good care, good food, you shouldn't get a pet". And i said to them, "what about homeless people who have dogs or cats that are THEIRS. They don't feed special food, and can't get to vets, but the pets they have are IMPORTANT to thier lives." if you have ever worked with homeless, you will know they often have hard time bonding to other humans, due to hurt or circumstance, and dogs or cats can bridge that. Why do i have a right to say they can't have a pet just cause i don't like how the animal lives or that the animal is fed only human food, or that both human and animal scavenge for food". would the animal not be scavenging on it's own, were it not for the help of the homeless? I learned long ago, when working in the legal field, that it's very hard to assume that you are better than anyone, that you know what is best, or that your choices would be the choices you make in other situations. sorry for the rant, i seem to be in a political mood today. ;-) Must be the elections we just had last night.
  • Natalie DetertNatalie Detert Milwaukee, WIMember Posts: 6,140
    edited 7 May, 2008
    Hi Izzy, We didn't see the 11 cat post, so we can't offer our opinion on that. But we can say that sometimes we read something or hear something that upsets us and since we are all here for one reason, for the love of cats, we tend to vent our opinions before really thinking about how it may effect others. It is never our intention to hurt anyone's feelings, but we each have our own opinions and emotions. Not that anything we say is per say, wrong, it is all a matter of perception. We do not feel as though anything you say, is offensive, and you certainly didn't offend us, but there are sensitive people out there, that just take comments out of context. Don't worry, Izzy, you are okay to us!!!
  • Darlene WagnerDarlene Wagner MilwaukeeMember Posts: 1,075
    edited 7 May, 2008
    Didn't see it either, but we all have days that we get frustrated and need to vent. Purrsonally, my mommy vents all the time to me about how bad some people treat kids, she also found a place online where ONLY grown-ups go to talk about that subject-that helps a lot sometimes. BIG HEAD BONKS sent your way:^:
  • Annalisa Conserti-JonesAnnalisa Conserti-Jones Member Posts: 5,234
    edited 7 May, 2008
    Oh, no Izzy. Don't feel bad. Mom has never worked rescue, but she feels much the same way about it, deep down. Even if she has pangs of regret that I will never father kitten every once in a while, she pretty much starts thinking about how many orange cats just as cute as me are out there without homes, and it makes her want to cry. You feel the way you feel, for that you should not apologize. Could you have said it differently? Sure. But everyone has days where they are tired of being diplomatic about things, and just need to let it all out.
  • Joy WaltersJoy Walters Member Posts: 9,276
    edited 8 May, 2008
    Thank you, Mr. Gravity-defying kitty, for your VERY kind words. You made my meowmie feel much better! You are a very kind friend! |/a/|
  • Lissa NicholsonLissa Nicholson SydneyMember Posts: 1,562
    edited 9 May, 2008
    Izzie, On behalf of our big fat furry family of forevers and fosters, we think you're awesome. With spay/neuter being such a key issue when it comes to kitties, it will naturally come up a lot. And sometimes it can be hard to be nice, in addition to being diplomatic. We understand that you deal with the results of others choices, both financially and emotionally. We are similar. It can be hard to be nice to people when you have a beautiful kind fluffy face in your mind, who went on to be euthanised. Foster homes, shelters and vets are not a proper method of birth control, and I dream of the day when less people see them as such.
  • Joy WaltersJoy Walters Member Posts: 9,276
    edited 2 June, 2008
    I would like to say a "big, fat" ;) thank you to EVERYONE who wrote in support of me, either by Pawmail or by posting here for the general population of Catster (including HQ) to see. I've heard from people all over the USA , Canada and England saying they didn't understand why my topic was closed, that there is a real and awful problem with cat over population in our world today. Many people were shocked to learn that just two cats who breed and their unfixed offspring can produce 430.000 more cats over 7 years. Two million cats are euthanized each year because there just are no homes for them. These are not warm, fuzzy statistics, but as Harvey said, not everything to do with cats is warm and fuzzy. The people who pawmailed said they felt I was a "voice of reason" and was just trying to bring attention to the very real problem of cat (and dog) overpopulation. All of us, at one time or another in our lives, has been told something we didn't particularly want to hear about ourselves or the way we happen to do things. At first we may react with anger and lash out, but after giving it some thought, we may just realize that the person who told us might be right. The action we take from there is up to us. We can seek help or plant our feet and shout loudly in protest. But shooting the messenger, as in my case, just didn't make sense to anyone who supported me. Thank you again to all those who contacted me or posted in support of this very vital and timely issue. I hope that all of you crusade for spay and neuter wherever you live no matter who tries to shut you down!
  • Lissa NicholsonLissa Nicholson SydneyMember Posts: 1,562
    edited 9 May, 2008
    The scariest stat I saw was that if all but 2% of the cat population was wiped out, but that 2% was intact and of breeding age, they could replace the entire 98% lost in ONE year.
  • Joy WaltersJoy Walters Member Posts: 9,276
    edited 15 May, 2008
    I obviously have to be careful what I say from now on, but I believe this statistic is true considering that one intact female could possibly produce 12 kittens a year. Those 12 go on to breed twice a year, and so on. That is assuming that all her kittens live which doesn\'t happen out in the wild. But in any case, two intact cats and their offspring can produce 430,000 cats in 7 years. Between 2 and 3 million unwanted cats are euthanized each year. Sad. :((
  • Faye DufourFaye Dufour Destrehan, LA/New Orleans areaMember Posts: 4,648
    edited 15 May, 2008
    Izzie: Thanks for posting that stastic again.....meowmy said she will copy and print it out, and use it when someone says "Oh but I think my Cat or Dog SHOULD have a litter......otherwise it will be depressed?" ;c;;c;:c9%:D%%:D% This is for all those who work in resuces, shelters, take in fosters, feed ferals, etc. YOU ROCK!!!!! We purr and pray for the day when all your wonderful (and unappreciated and recognized) work is not necessary because there are no more unwanted cats or dogs. Happy to be in a Loving and Safe Home, Benny Grunch, Louis Armstrong, Emma Barrett & Pete Fountain|:||:|
  • Tanya MundyTanya Mundy boulderMember Posts: 763
    edited 15 May, 2008
    Suey, those are important numbers, but the do not reflect the real world. The "goal" of evoution for any animal is to attempt to replace the mother and father in the genetic pool. a community will populate till there is not enough resources, then it will diminish. this isn't like they say "gosh, i need to get on birth control", but because there are no longer any homes, no longer any food, more disease and preditors. Cats who tend to have 4-5 kittens per litter, 3-4 litters per year -- it can be assumed that in the "wild" (even the wild of the streets), only 2 of the children will surive to an old enough age to reproduce. while there are no or few natural preditors, there are cars, diseass, fleas which takes most kittens and puppies in any area, etc. What angers me about the new "fix all animals or else" movement is that these people are not looking at the facts. 1) Since shelters have been tracking, the number of fereal cats and stray dogs has consistantly gone down each and every year. Shelters do have problems, and by *some* accounts there are too many ferel animals. but by WHOS account. just those who don't want to see cats die from cars? 2) Cats keep down rats and mice. places with very aggressive population deterrants are turning to chemicals to kill off the rats and mice, when wild / feral pets would do. 3) Just because it's sad that things die, that doesn't mean not letting them be part of the "natural" (as it were) world is the correct environmental thing to do. I know it's sad that cats are killed by cars, or wounded in fights, but it's a better overall environmental choice to let them kill rodents, than using pesticides. This is not a simple issue. but as with most "causes" what is heard loudes is the "pro" cause, and the quite legitimate issues on the other side are just left by the wayside or ignored.
  • Joy WaltersJoy Walters Member Posts: 9,276
    edited 16 May, 2008
    Dulci, you are right, as usual. When Man steps in and tries to reorder the way things are, we usually wind up just making more chaos and confusion. The animals who were on our land before we started wholesale building and developing did a fine job taking care of themselves. I know from my years in animal rescue that feral colonies will maintain their own numbers. It\'s only when we interfere that things go haywire. The efficacy of TNR hasn\'t really been proven. Maybe the cats I saw behind the Burger King dumpster would be better off if left alone to maintain themselves. Who knows? When I worked with the rescue, my main goal was to do all I could to prevent cruelty to the animals who were already here. I always felt responsible somehow for the unwanted and abused dogs and cats I worked with and worked as hard as I could, by way of apology to them, to find them a great forever home. That was my objective. Spay and neuter was always a main issue for the rescue I worked with, and indeed, any rescue. But for me, it was working with and for the ones who through no fault of their own, saw the dark and dirty side of (in)humanity. Thanks, Dulci, for your great post. You\'re one very smart kitty.
  • Lissa NicholsonLissa Nicholson SydneyMember Posts: 1,562
    edited 19 May, 2008
    Dulci, that was a very interesting post. I don't understand enough about the role ferals play in the environment to take a position on them. I do believe that ferals should be trapped and vaccinated against the common diseases in an area, to protect their quality of life, and as an extra safeguard for any outdoor cats in the area. It's people who allow their housecats to breed unchecked that get my goat up. I volunteer at a local shelter, and we get a lot of kittens in who are left by people who didn't want to try and find homes for them, rather than trapped ferals or the kittens of ferals. Once they are in the shelter system, they will either be adopted, or euthanised. Obviously, the euthanised ones wont play any part in the natural world, and I would estimate between 25-50% of the adopted ones are kept strictly indoor. That's not even starting on the people who just dump the kittens when they are still tiny. My two were found with a brother and sister in a box at the bottom of a building site when they were only a few days old. They'd been left there to die, and were well on their way to starvation when found. It is a scenario that is far too common where I live. I'm not going to pretend that I have all the answers, because I have far too many questions for that to occur! I have enjoyed reading the eloquent posts in this thread.
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